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#1: Waves of Power Author: EATON21, Location: http://www.iMeshChat.Net

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:24 am
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Spam

#2: Re: Waves of Power Author: neo_wraith, Location: planet earth currently

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:51 am
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yes congrats man you have spammed a nearly inactive forum!!!
what you forgot to say is it also takes vast ammounts of cash to harvest the energy and also they need the collection units will be heavily damaged by 40 swells as well as the sea has a lil annoying factor... its got salt in it and salt is very corrosive so lets add the corrosion factor the damage from high tides and the vast cost and we get..... a pointless venture yay!!!!

#3: Re: Waves of Power Author: Mad_Bomber, Location: Ban-Town, England

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:26 pm
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Unfortunately, there are several ways to stop steel oxidising, the cheapest is, obviously, PAINT. Also you could use Galvanising techniques or even, if its a high cost project, stainless steel. I know Stainless rusts, but it takes alot more time... probably longer than the service life of the 'unit'.

And, what are these 'collection units'?

Although you correctly pointed out it would be expensive, if the technology was perfected and far more efficient then the benefits would far out way the costs.

I'm not condoning this 'Green' power generation... its all hippy dreams... I'm in the Diesel Generator business and this shit would make me poor... so carry on picking holes in it. YeY!

#4: Re: Waves of Power Author: neo_wraith, Location: planet earth currently

Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 11:52 pm
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yep paint works alick however the near constant repainting of the metal would hardly make the venture worth while and sadly you cant galvanise stainless steel that like your argument just dont stick, and the vast cost of stainless steel would stop the project dead or dont ya think they would have done it by now even if the costs were high. and while these hippy dreamers keep makeing silly but hopefull plans yep i will keep picking holes in it but it still wont alter one prime fact ..... i still dont give a f^^k what you do for a liveing but on kicking eco nonsense atleast we can agree.

#5: Re: Waves of Power Author: d|O__O|b, Location: Paradise Valley, Arizona

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:14 pm
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maybe you were right about porn and I neo, because this is how I saw this post. Eaton blah source of relief blah blowing blah back and forth movement blah it results in tides. Tides hold a great deal of power which is apparent in the fact that it moves a vast amount of blah upwards. In some places, it is reported that the tides can move as high as forty feet.
GEE I need to change my porno ways.

#6: Re: Waves of Power Author: Mad_Bomber, Location: Ban-Town, England

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:34 pm
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No, I never said galv SS... I said SS OR galv.

Also, who siad it HAD to be made out of metal?

It seems your arguing for the sake of arguing... I was just trying to make a point.

#7: Re: Waves of Power Author: neo_wraith, Location: planet earth currently

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:09 am
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the person who said it had to be metal was you alick look at the posts it helps to read the fourum but for ''arguements sake''

neo_wraith wrote:

yes congrats man you have spammed a nearly inactive forum!!!
what you forgot to say is it also takes vast ammounts of cash to harvest the energy and also they need the collection units will be heavily damaged by 40 swells as well as the sea has a lil annoying factor... its got salt in it and salt is very corrosive so lets add the corrosion factor the damage from high tides and the vast cost and we get..... a pointless venture yay!!!!

i didnt mention metal at all however
''

mad_bomber wrote:

there are several ways to stop steel oxidising, the cheapest is, obviously, PAINT. Also you could use Galvanising techniques or even, if its a high cost project, stainless steel. I know Stainless rusts, but it takes alot more time... probably longer than the service life of the 'unit'.

you did
ps some plastics corrode/become brittle in saltwater heres the sciency bit
But typically plastics are very resistant to saltwater corrosion. Some of them may also become brittle over time, but in general, the plastics like polyethylene, are very good.

A breakdown of types of plastics follows:

-Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET) is commonly used in 2 liter soda bottles, cooking oil bottles, peanut butter jars. It is the most widely recycled plastic.

-High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) is commonly used for detergent bottles, milk jugs, and grocery bags.

-Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) is commonly used for plastic plumbing pipes, outdoor furniture, shrink wrap, water bottles, salad dressing and liquid detergent containers. This is ideal for plumbing your aquarium and usually is bought as Schedule 40 PVC.

-Low Density Polyethylene (LDPE) is commonly used for dry cleaning bags, produce bags, trash can liners, and food storage containers.

-Polypropylene (PP) is commonly used for aerosol caps, drinking straws.

-Polystyrene (PS) is commonly used for packaging pellets or "Styrofoam peanuts," cups, plastic tableware, meat trays, and To-Go clam shell type containers.

-Other types of plastic include certain kinds of food containers and Tupperware. This plastic category, as its name of "other" implies, is any plastic other than the named above.

The best types of plastics for use in the aquarium are Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) for plumbing your tank, and Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET) for things like brine shrimp hatcheries.
not one of the plastics mention that they can handle the raw power of a 40ft swell in full storm conditions .
and yes doob lay off the porn or atleast leave a gap an post on here i need semi inteligent conversation now and then to keep this place active also i told ya they'd be back Very Happy

#8: Re: Waves of Power Author: Mad_Bomber, Location: Ban-Town, England

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:45 am
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ok... so... plastic doesn't corrode.

Anaconda wave-power generator snakes into next stage of production

The device is said to be at the forefront of a new generation of wave-power machines that could slash renewables costs

Giant rubber sea snakes could harness the plentiful clean power off Britain's coasts within five years, according to the inventors of a new type of wave-energy generator.

#9: Re: Waves of Power Author: neo_wraith, Location: planet earth currently

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:13 pm
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plastic does corrode/rot/breakdown as does rubber .... here is the sciency bit
The crucial fact is that plastics are organic and have been described as a time bomb ticking away since cellulose nitrate based plastics were invented around 130 years ago. It can of course be argued that manufacturers’ foremost intentions have never been to make beautiful objects for museums. However, museums have a duty to preserve their acquisitions. Two conferences on this subject have already been held in Britain during the first quarter of 1995. The tone of the second conference, organised by The National Museums of Scotland in Edinburgh in April, was fatalistic but determined.
Recognition of Polymer Degradation

It was not until the late 1980s that attention was paid to the fact that plastics artefacts had been physically changing, showing signs of acid vapour, tackiness, warping, embrittlement and crazing. Cellulose nitrate and cellulose acetate were particularly affected. By 1991 John Morgan of the Plastics Historical Society had collected enough data to write Conservation of Plastics -An Introduction, a joint PHS /Conservation Unit publication, and the Conservation Unit launched a survey to identify objects at risk with the aim of setting up a research programme. The survey included everything from radios and cables to textiles and sculptures.
Deterioration of Acrylic Paintings and Pieces of Art

By 1992 acrylic based paintings worth millions of pounds by leading artists of the 1960s including David Hockney and Jackson Pollock had begun to suffer discolouration, cracking and greyness due to the absorption of dust and atmospheric pollutants. These paints seemed particularly vulnerable. At room temperature they are relatively soft and attract dirt which becomes embedded. However, to date no method has been found of cleaning them.
Impact on the Photographic Film Industry

The photographic film industry was also badly hit when irreplaceable archive nitrate stock started to decompose. Today, the National Film Archive transfers cellulose nitrate and cellulose triacetate onto more stable polyester at the rate of a million metres a year.
Preserving Plastics Pieces in Museums

The PHS/CU survey unearthed some interesting facts. For example, 40% of museums surveyed contain plastics objects manufactured and collected since 1980, and modem plastics are also showing symptoms of decay. Polyurethane foam appears to be one of the worst victims, and many early video and audio tapes on magnetic media are already unplayable. The curator who has to supervise a collection of high-tech, mixed material products such as space suits is confronted with a conservation dilemma: which material deserves priority treatment when each separate plastic has different requirements?
Factors Affecting Polymer Degradation

The degradation of plastics can be said to begin as soon as the polymer is synthesised, and is increased by residual stresses left by moulding processes. This can be followed by exposure to light (especially UV), humidity, oxygen, heat, bacteria and stress. Plastics can also be contaminated by other materials, including other plastics. A polystyrene camera body, for example, can be attacked by plasticiser migrating from a PVC strap. Ideally the conservator needs information about the history of an object before prescribing treatment, but even before this, the plastics ‘doctor’ must jump another hurdle. Specific conservation action cannot be taken until the polymer has been identified, and this is a technical area full of pitfalls. A 1920s black brooch could be made of at least six different plastics materials, or simply painted as was common practice in the 19th century. Even a patent number, one of the few ‘hallmarks’ found on plastics and an obvious aid to identification, may refer to a fixing mechanism and not to the moulding.
Preserving Plastics

Derek Pullen, a conservator at the Tate Gallery, explains, ‘Plastics are giant molecules held together by forces which can be broken by attacking energy forces such as light. All the conservator can do is to keep mouldings in a very stable, low energy environment (the burial chambers of the Pyramids were ideal)’.
Types of Polymer Degradation

There are two main types of plastics degradation being researched at present: physical and chemical, and both are closely inter-connected. Physical degradation can involve environmental stress cracking and plasticiser migration and loss. Chemical reactions include oxidation and hydrolysis, and are a problem particularly affecting the cellulose esters (cellulose nitrate and cellulose acetate), which emit acidic degradation products. If not removed, these catalyse further reactions and eventually cause serious crazing and total destruction of the object. If degrading cellulose esters are not isolated, the acidic fumes will infect similar objects stored close by and initiate degradation there.
Solutions to Polymer Degradation

As the recognition of polymer degradation improves, conservation guidelines are beginning to emerge. High-tech solutions which could help in theory are prohibitively expensive, but tailor made scavengers such as activated charcoal or Ageless help to create a low oxygen environment. Ageless is a reactive powdered iron and is normally used to prolong the shelf-life of dry foods by absorbing oxygen. Epoxidised soyabean oil (ESBO), has also been tested with encouraging results as an acid absorbing coating on degrading cellulose nitrate.
Conclusion

Compared to traditional materials with long established technologies such as metals and glass, the complex chemical nature of plastics is providing conservators with possibly their most formidable challenge yet.

Primary author: Sylvia Katz

Source: Materials World, Vol. pp. 377-78, August 1995.
and as for rubber it rots and get eaten see below for more science
The degradation of natural rubber (NR), synthetic poly(cis-1,4-isoprene) (SR), and cross-linked NR (latex gloves) by Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria was analyzed by weight loss, gel permeation chromatography, and determination of the protein content. Weight losses of 11−18% and an increase in protein up to 850 μg/mL after incubation of Nocardia sp. DSMZ43191, Streptomyces coelicolor, Streptomyces griseus, bacterial isolate 18a, Acinetobacter calcoaceticus, and Xanthomonas sp. with latex gloves as a carbon source indicated degradation of the polymer. An increase of protein up to 1250 μg/mL was obtained upon incubation of the bacteria with SR. No or only little weight losses and no increase in the protein content were found for nondegrading control strains such as Streptomyces lividans and Streptomyces exfoliatus and for mutants of degrading strains of S. coelicolor and S. griseus, which have been identified by their inability to produce clearing zones on opaque latex agar. Measurement of the average molecular weight of synthetic rubber before and after degradation showed a time-dependent shift to lower values for the degrading strains. Diketone derivates of oligo(cis-1,4-isoprene) were identified as metabolites of rubber degradation. An oxidative degradation pathway of poly(cis-1,4-isoprene) to acetyl-coenzymeA and propionyl-coenzymeA by β-oxidation is suggested for bacterial degradation of isoprene rubber.
working in the Diesel Generator business i would have thought you would know more of various rubber / plastic issues as they are used in various areas of that industry (dont make me look just to prove you dont know enough im getting bored of constantly doing it)

#10: Re: Waves of Power Author: Mad_Bomber, Location: Ban-Town, England

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:08 pm
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TL;DR

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